Tulpa.info - tulpa-discussion

Modern tulpamancy I could see some sliding over to DID land, but less likely back in the day

anyway i got to go, good talk!

I wouldn't say the same is easily true for modern tulpamancy unless they clearly have some sort of anxiety issues going on.

8:23 PM

Modern tulpamancy is itself a paradigm. An explanation. (edited)

8:23 PM

Older non-categorized tulpamancy such as through authorship and magic and so on is more likely to freak people out and cause them to go seek answers.

8:23 PM

But if someone is already aware of tulpamancy the only reason I can think of them thinking they've got DID instead is if they are experiencing something mal-adaptive from picking up the practice. Or straight being misinformed or misunderstanding. (edited)

Not really so much here in .info, but there seems to be a lot more cross talk and exposure to the DID communities and mindsets that lead people to taking that leap of judgement. That said, you have a fair point that the settlement of the "magic mindset" in old tulpamancy could help a lot with people not seeking wild recommendations as well.

I think Zen is right. I think improvements to education and mental health support are the long term solution to the danger of pseudo-DID and harmful views of DID Perhaps the way to achieve good results in the relatively short term is to get an easily understandable explanation of tulpamancy out to people. I agree with this statement:

if someone is already aware of tulpamancy the only reason I can think of them thinking they've got DID instead is if they are experiencing something mal-adaptive from picking up the practice. Or straight being misinformed or misunderstanding.

I think even basic knowledge of tulpamancy might be an inoculation against pseudo-DID. Maybe a tulpamancy explanation could come bundled with any piece of media, or could be incorporated as part of the piece of media. Even if a piece of media doesn't depict DID as 'cool' in any way, there's still the danger of self-misdiagnosis by people who feel they can relate to the characters very strongly. Maybe this could be minimised by including an explanation of tulpamancy. tldr: I think it would be safer if more people understood that you can have anime characters in your head without having DID, especially if they are consuming media that talks about plurality (non-anime characters are also valid I suppose)

Ale𝕏andra 🍄🐈

I think Zen is right. I think improvements to education and mental health support are the long term solution to the danger of pseudo-DID and harmful views of DID Perhaps the way to achieve good results in the relatively short term is to get an easily understandable explanation of tulpamancy out to people. I agree with this statement:

if someone is already aware of tulpamancy the only reason I can think of them thinking they've got DID instead is if they are experiencing something mal-adaptive from picking up the practice. Or straight being misinformed or misunderstanding.

I think even basic knowledge of tulpamancy might be an inoculation against pseudo-DID. Maybe a tulpamancy explanation could come bundled with any piece of media, or could be incorporated as part of the piece of media. Even if a piece of media doesn't depict DID as 'cool' in any way, there's still the danger of self-misdiagnosis by people who feel they can relate to the characters very strongly. Maybe this could be minimised by including an explanation of tulpamancy. tldr: I think it would be safer if more people understood that you can have anime characters in your head without having DID, especially if they are consuming media that talks about plurality (non-anime characters are also valid I suppose)

both what?

I think Zen is right. I think improvements to education and mental health support are the long term solution to the danger of pseudo-DID and harmful views of DID

10:31 PM

This doesn't have to be either-or. Improve education and mental health support, and be careful and thoughtful about the effects different portrayals can have at the same time.

yes, I don't mean it's either-or

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10:35 PM

I also think being careful about different portrayals is important

10:37 PM

inappropriate portrayals are essentially misinformation, i.e. acting against education

10:38 PM

so even something as simple as not releasing an inappropriate portrayal at least doesn't fight against education, so it's a benefit compared to releasing it

I agree about the basic knowledge of tulpamancy being a potential inoculation against pseudo-DID, I think.

Done right anyway, I've seen some seem to go from finding out about tulpas to pseudo-DID, but that seems to happen less now, I think?

I've seen some seem to go from finding out about tulpas to pseudo-DID

very believable, and two possibilities I can think of (off the top of my head): 1. They were given a poor explanation of tulpamancy 2. They were inclined to develop a coping strategy anyway, and pseudo-DID is just the one they landed on (edited)

10:42 PM

potential inoculation is my thinking too, not 100% sure about it

When talking about inappropriate portrayals here it's important to me to consider whether something is fiction or has fantastical elements. I am all for calling out nonsense, misguided views of dissociative disorders, but I feel like calling out something grounded in actual magic for being unrealistic to DID isn't great, like stormlight. It's also perhaps notable to realize that when describing people's brains what is realistic isn't always a given, in that there can be significant deviations from what you might expect. (edited)

10:47 PM

It's my understanding, by the way, in Stormlight, that they seem to be both dissociative and intentionally craft their identities. cough.

10:47 PM

I've yet to read it though, despite being repeatedly suggested it.

10:48 PM

But the point stands that people seem to get uppity about depictions when it's actually completely unknown whether illnesses can manifest that way. (edited)

10:48 PM

Just because something is demonizing doesn't actually make it false.

Yes. Though it being true also doesn't necessarily mean representation on the whole is representative of the population as a whole either, but that's a whole other kettle of fish.

In a way, what we require is a boatload more DID stories! So that we have the best and the worst.

10:51 PM

I bet that would be the objectively worst thing for people with DID though

10:51 PM

Without support.

10:52 PM

But for everyone else culturally it would be helpful.

Aye.

10:52 PM

You know what would make for an interesting study, is to see what general, average differences exist between ... accidental(?) and intentional identities. What sort of differences in various qualities, and overall adaptiveness. Of course, that study would both be difficult and couldn't happen without other things being established first, lol.

A purposeful study of the deep lore?

10:53 PM

I would read it.

how to even categorise that... how to even collect the data...

10:54 PM

that would be so fascinating tho!

Probably a series of multiple choice questions. Extensive ones.

Scarlet

I think Zen is right. I think improvements to education and mental health support are the long term solution to the danger of pseudo-DID and harmful views of DID

My thoughts exactly. With that you don’t need to rely solely on the fact that you can’t educate everyone and you don’t control what someone will read first. I think Alexandra and Zen have too much faith in people logical approach and willingness to be educated, or relearn or rethink something they already made their mind on. And Zen you agree with me - you said that people thinking they have did when they don’t have it would come from experiencing something maladaptive, or straight being misinformed or misunderstanding. I care about minority of people that would shape their mind around misinformation and misunderstanding, not about everyone, because I know most people wouldn’t have that problem

11:53 PM

Educating and spreading information about the danger would probably solve it, but even in tulpamancy community people aren’t aware of the potential harm, and I can’t see how information like that could be spread without DIDers fighting against it. „ARE YOU SAYING WE ARE FAKING A DISORDER?”. There is this „we vs them” mentality among DIDers, a disorder is part of their identity and they are very defensive about it, I don’t think many of them would let even bring the issue up. I tried!

I think Alexandra and Zen have too much faith in people logical approach and willingness to be educated, or relearn or rethink something they already made their mind on.

@Deleted User actually I think you misunderstood me... I have very little faith in this as a short term solution

12:18 AM

I basically think people have to be trained from a young age to think critically for that training to be accepted reliably... i.e. critical thinking is the first thing they encounter

Yes I too giggled when you said that.

So you are basically proposing a solution even you don’t believe would work?

It won't work in the short term, but I think it would in the long term

12:21 AM

long term vs short term

There is no solution that works. Censorship isn't a solution and our solution requires widespread cultural adaptation, it's out of our hands (edited)

if we don't think about actually fixing the root causes, and start at some point, it will literally never be fixed and will always been in a triage state

12:23 AM

as far as censorship goes, I think self-censorship of really harmful takes could work as a short term thing to help a lot of people

12:23 AM

in the words of Scarlet, "be careful and thoughtful about the effects different portrayals can have"

I dont know where censorship came from? Noone here is in a position to censor anything, as far as i’m aware

On the personal level, yes. The best thing to do is to make sure you are educated and not being an ass. If you have the energy and the time, you may be able to educate one or two individuals as you go about your existence, but that's not the same as fixing the problem.

12:25 AM

What exactly is your solution then? You're a little vague on that point.

i’m not offering a solution, i just brought up the problem as something that can cause harm and needs attention like i usually do which first i felt you dismissed , now you are providing solutions to the problem so i think it’s progress

(edited)

12:31 AM

Realistically what else can we do beside talking about potential problem

‍♀️ starting Tulpamancy 2.0 could be a solution

(edited)

12:32 AM

Mindbending

12:32 AM

Avatar fans would catch on it

12:35 AM

Put all magick, gatesystem, otherkin, tulpamancy, imaginary friends, identities etc under one label, and just show how it is - it’s all one thing and your expectations and guides define your experience, put the power back to the host, they are in control, empower them, say that sure you can have tulpa be your equal but that’s your decision, not someone else’s

12:36 AM

explain potential harm and mistakes people can do

12:36 AM

so yeah basically educating people as you say

12:36 AM

apologies if what i’m saying doesn’t make much sense, i’m a bit drunk

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I like Avatar because the life lessons in it don't require you to have spiritual beliefs to get a LOT out of it, but the aesthetics are kinda cool Maybe tulpamancy 2.0 should drop the pseudo-magick label of tulpamancy?

12:36 AM

gives the wrong impression I think (edited)

Yeah i just dropped mindbending because nothing else came to my mind

12:37 AM

but instead of 200 approaches there is one that puts everything under one term

Deleted User

Yeah i just dropped mindbending because nothing else came to my mind

no I mean drop 'tulpamancy' as a label

everyone’s experience is different (edited)

What I primarily took issue with is you looking at a book doing something identity related and saying "this is bad for DID" when it was actually "People with DID are bad for themselves, especially when uneducated." I definitely do not contend the core point that bad takes on DID as a broad thing are bad - variety and accuracy are more preferable to normies and nothing is more preferable to people with DID, probably. (edited)

12:38 AM

The current situation is thusly, not great for anyone.

Ale𝕏andra 🍄🐈

as far as censorship goes, I think self-censorship of really harmful takes could work as a short term thing to help a lot of people

I don't think anyone is talking about censorship. It isn't censorship to criticize and raise your standards. We couldn't outright censor them if we wanted to. But telling them how to do better isn't censorship. Not supporting shoddy or thoughtless media isn't censorship.

Scarlet

I don't think anyone is talking about censorship. It isn't censorship to criticize and raise your standards. We couldn't outright censor them if we wanted to. But telling them how to do better isn't censorship. Not supporting shoddy or thoughtless media isn't censorship.

I was thinking if censorship could help or not. Extreme, maybe, but worth considering. Not really feasible tho

Ahhhh.

Ale𝕏andra 🍄🐈

I was thinking if censorship could help or not. Extreme, maybe, but worth considering. Not really feasible tho

Unless i win next election

I think of "not publishing a really badly written book" as a form of self censorship, but that semanticssssssss

Yeah I wouldn't propose censorship because that would probably stifle conversations like these about creating better media if things legally get ruled out as options, lol.

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Ale𝕏andra 🍄🐈

I think of "not publishing a really badly written book" as a form of self censorship, but that semanticssssssss

In that case, every action of editing and refinement is censorship of a sort.

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Mindscaping

Scarlet

In that case, every action of editing and refinement is censorship of a sort.

was gonna expand on that thought but I censored it

Deleted User

Mindscaping

now this has potential

12:42 AM

yet is less epic

landscape = mindscape Landscaping = mindscaping

12:42 AM

wait

12:42 AM

my bbrain doesn’t work

Landminescaping = ???

Y'all drunk, I'm going to bed.

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what do they it, mindspace?

Scarlet

Landminescaping = ???

12:45 AM

in my system, our term for headmates was/is simulacra. Nice and neutral, no direct magic connotations

Identificating

singular simulacrum

verb?

12:45 AM

simulacruming

Deleted User

simulacruming

I do NOT like this word!

why

Let's simulate this, shall we? "Welcome to Simulacrum.info, where we learn to do simulacruming, or 'cruming' for short!"

12:49 AM

Nobody wants to be associated with something that sounds so un-cool.

Mindcruming

12:50 AM

Headmates are called Mindcrumbs (edited)

12:51 AM

Can’t wait for people tomorrow to read this conversation, all confused like i am right now

I have the name for Tulpamancy 2.0

12:52 AM

I need you to summon all of your concentration abilities, OK? I need your true opinion on this.

12:53 AM

Mindcraft